Basic Questions on Seeburg 3wa and wb2mp3

[bobwiley]

Hi,

Working on getting my wallbox to work properly and was hoping for some hints to help me trouble shoot.

Here’s what it it currently doing. If I give it a credit it automatically starts cycling without me pushing in numbers or letters to make a selection and does not stop unless I manually move to subtract credit reel which it will then stop at the end of that cycle. I can push buttons down when there is no credit and they release like they are supposed to. If I give it a credit it automatically starts cycling and i can push buttons down mid cycle to get it them to stay down shortly on their own. And then it will release the selection at the end of the cycle. So far I’ve gotten 3 different songs to play through the wallbox2mp3 but have not been able to replicate those song to play again when I press the corresponding letters and numbers.

 

So my wallbox2mp3 questions are:

1. Does the wallbox2mp3 immediately play a song when it gets the signal, or is there a delay of a “x” seconds before a song starts?

2. How long will the wallbox2mp3 accept a signal? I’m wondering if my stepper unit is slow on the revolutions per minute is it will still interpret the signal or if the wallbox have to be within the factory specs to read the song selection signal.

3. Are there led indicators stating when its detected a signal and is playing it, or a signal is detected but can’t decipher what song its supposed to be?

 

Wallbox questions:

I’m going to try to work on this and double check I have everything cleaned and adjusted properly, but I don’t have a lot of time to work on it. The only repair guy I know says he can only work on it when he has a compatible jukebox in his shop to try it with, and so far he doesn’t have any coming in. Every now and then I see used untested parts, like the credit unit for sale. Is it worth throwing money at parts or are these things pretty bullet proof if there isn’t any physical sign of damage? What is the common electro mechanical thing that goes/breaks on Seeburg wallboxes? I just noticed that shipping  relatively is expensive and most wallboxes in my price range are untested, so didn’t know if one comes along I’d be smart grabbing it to see it it works, or at least swap out the troubled/suspect parts and hope to cobble together a working one.

Thanks!

 

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

What model 3wa have you got ?

Do you have a manual for it? If not there is one in the support section on this site.

I think if it was me I would start by looking at why the wiper arm starts &  continues to turn without making a selection, when you cancell the credit does the arm stop in the home, non credit position ?

when a credit is established the motor should move the wiper arm to the credit position and then stop, there are two motor start switches  one is triggered by the letter buttons & the other by Numbers  check that both of these switches are open when the wiper arm is in the credit position ie with the power off manually advance wiper arm until the mechanism lever drops over the first step on the cam. Check that the arm is in its correct position.

Cheeers Scudie

[Scudie]

Good Evening Bobwiley

just had chance to look at & read again your queries from earlier today, my time was a little limited earlier!

As far as I have seen wallbox’s that don’t work  are normally down to the fact that someone has either removed something possibly  to repair another box. Or something is damaged because of careless handling while it has been removed from its location poor storage or shipping.  The electromechanical type of wallbox’s are normally very robustly built and I have only had one instance where I have had to buy a replacement component because I could not figure a way of repairing it.

I certainly would not start buying any replacement parts untill it has been established  that your machine does indeed require them.

In my oppinion the most complicated part of my 3wa which from memory is a V3WAD I think , is the credit unit which on mine is  unplugable but apparently on some versions of the 3wa is hard wired.

The wb2mp3 unit should start to play the chosen selection within a couple of seconds of the wiper arm returning to either the rest/home position or if further credits have been established the credit position.

The wb2mp3 recieves a train of ground/ earth pulses as the wiper arm passes over the contacts on the circular board, with the wb2mp3 there is no requirement to have a stepper connected,  the stepper would have originally been inside the jukebox and would have converted the pulse sent by the wallbox into a selection for the tormat memory unit.

There is certainly led’s mounted to the wb2mp3 board, in the manual it describes how one of them can be used to diagnose certain faults.

Hope this helps

Scudie

 

[bobwiley]

Hey Scudie,

Thanks for the replies!

I got a chance to work on it and made some progress. Its stamped stating it’s a D 3WA. It has a plug in dual pricing unit DPU-10.

If I start the wallbox with no credits the motor carryover will go to the standby position and I can freely push down the numbers and letters and they do not latch.  Carryover switches  U V W will be open, closed, open (just as the manual says). Adding change will correctly trigger the DPU-10 to add credits. The credit light will go on and the notched cam wheel will rotate to the credit position and so will the motor carryover wiper arm. The arm looks like it is the the proper “v” shape. I can press and lock in numbers and letters (and release them by pressing a different button) just like I should. Depressing a number and letter will cause the signal switch to momentarily close and the corresponding letter and number motor starting switches will stay closed. The carryover switch (UVW) will have all contacts open in the credit position. If in the credit position I press down a selection and I manually lift the carryover switch so the U V W switch is closed, open, closed just like the manual, the wallbox will cycle a full revolution and play a selection (not necessarily the one I picked!), reset the numbers and letters and return to the credit position. I can’t get it to subtract a credit yet. If in the credit position and the DPU 10 is in the credit position and I don’t make a selection and the motor starting switches are open and i trigger the carryover switches to the cycling position it will cycle and return to the credit position and not play a song. If the motor carryover wiper switches are in the credit position and I put the DPU-10 in the no credit position, the credit lights will go out and it won’t cycle. Same deal if the motor carryover wiper switches are in the standby mode, it won’t cycle unless a credit is added like it is supposed to.

I know the credit cancel switches I need to look at in detail and it’s hard to access them. But I notice the firm metal bracing leads that don’t have contacts on them are touching a different leaf than they are mounted to. I’m guessing they got bent wrong and maybe are shorting a signal, hence why the credits arent canceling.

What I’m really stumped on is why it won’t auto cycle once I make a selection… I’m going to try to make a video to maybe help show what’s going on.

 

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

Good to hear that you have made progress, had a bit of a look at the manual looks like the motor gets its ground through contact E of the credit cancel switch.

I can’t believe how rusty I am in the respect of the 3wA, I will try to find an hour to grab my 3wa and get it connected so I can refresh myself on its workings.

Cheers Scudie

[bobwiley]

Okay, some dumb questions.

First, it shouldn’t send the signal until the buttons are pressed and then the motor carryover wiper arm brushes across the contacts, correct? I’ve had a few instances where the wallbox2mp3 starts playing a song just by me pressing some buttons and it hasn’t cycled yet. Guessing it’s just a “leaky” signal of electrical interference. I need to get the proper type of wire and gauge yet (currently using speaker wire from the wallbox to the wallbox2mp3).

2nd, for me to solve the issue of random songs playing. First I should make sure I have the right gauge wire and length for the signal to the wallbox2mp3.  2nd I  should have the the contacts clean for the motor carryover. Then 3rd the contacts for the numbers and letters. I did some initial cleaning back when I first got it. For the numbers and letters, what6the best way to clean them out, should I try to take each row out, or is spraying with electrical contact spray solvent/cleaner an appropriate thing to do?

 

I’m just stumped on this motor cycling thing. I feel like I’m so close. Once I make the selection of a number and letter (in either order, number or letter first, then the other) in the credit position it should just automatically cycle right? Is there a step or switch I’m missing or not thinking of? When the number and letter motor starting switches are closed, what are they supposed to signal to get the motor carryover arm to move. If the motor starting switches are supposed to trigger the carryover switches U VW to go closed open closed, I don’t get how, as it’s a mechanical bar that lifts the carryover switches via a cam.

 

 

 

[bobwiley]

Thanks scudie!

[bobwiley]

Okay, here’s a link to some pictures. I’ve also linked a video showing it in action. https://imgur.com/a/uFNiqHJ

 

Here’s the video https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bIBkhsFR_H3_abMOU4Z6kEwWN8qB_zRk/view?usp=drivesdk

 

 

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

First it should not play any music until after the wiper arm has made a complete sweep of the contact board. When you configured the sd card did you tick any of the random play options? If you did I would format and configure again without random, in my experience it can make the system unstable.

I don’t think the gauge of wire will be the cause of your problems, I am currently using house telephone wire for a couple of wallbox’s that are at least a metre away from the Wb2mp3 unit.

Stripping the selection switches is quite an involved job I have done it and cleaned each part of the switches in a strong detergent with an old toothbrush & if they are badly tarnished given them a rub with sore Duraglit metal polish.

However I doubt that the selection switches are at the route of your problem, you could check there operation with a multimeter that has either ohms or a continuity function, I think I am correct in saying that,

with no selection buttons pressed

one probe connected to the chassis and the other on the first  of the selection contacts (V)  on the circular disc you should have continuity, work your way around the contacts through to A  & then the numbers  1 through to ten, you should have continuity on them all.

If then V was selected with the button the V contact should have continuity but all the other letters should be open circuit ie no continuity.

If V is released by pressing say L contacts V through to & including L should have continuity to ground / chassis but K to A again should be open circuit.

Hope this helps

Scudie.

 

 

 

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

Have just watched your video, the signal shorting switch should be open when the buttons are released & when latched Ie pressed in.

It should close as the button is pressed approximately 1/2 way in.

Are you sure that when you establish a credit that it is enough for a selection ?

Say for instance a nickel registers one credit but you need 2 credits to make a selection? A dime would automatically register 2 credits and a quarter 6 credits.

Cheers Scudie

[bobwiley]

Hi Scudie, thanks for your replies (and all your posts!). I got some time to work on it today. My first goal is to get it to play the correct songs. Then after that solve the credit issue.

 

Here’s how I’m testing it. First, in the credit position, I have the multimeter probe on the blue terminal “signal” (by the 24v and Com terminals) and the other probe on the contact dot on the disc. With no buttons down all the #’s (1-0) and all the letters (A-v) read zero. The brass plate and wiper arm read one.

When “a” is pressed the “a” AND “b” contact each read zero. “C” thru “v” all read one.

 

When “b” is pressed “a” thru “c” each read zero and “d” thru “v” read one.

 

When “c” is pressed “a” thru “d” read zero and “e” thru “v” read one.

When “d” is pressed “a” thru “e” read zero and “f” thru “v” read one.

 

So in short:

A (down)

ABC-V

001-1

 

B down

ABCD-V

0001-1

 

C down

ABCDE-V

00001-1

 

D Down

ABCDEF-V

000001-1

 

For the numbers

 

If “1” is pressed, the “1” reads zero and “2” thru “0” read one.

 

If “2” is pressed, “1” and “2” read zero and “3” thru “0” read one.

 

So its seems the letters are off by one or the numbers are off by one following the pattern. I.e., is “a” is pressed it should read zero and “b” thru “v” should read one. I’ll hopefully have an hour to look at it again tomorrow.

 

I’ll keep ya’ll posted on what I find out!

[bobwiley]

Okay. Did some reading and to my understanding the letter and number readings are right, “A” should get two pulses, so “a” and “b” should read zero…seems odd to me. I’ll have to sleep on it and think some more. I’ll be testing all the numbers and letters tomorrow.  Hopefully I’m doing it right!

[Scudie]

Good Morning Bob

If it was me the first thing I would want to sort out is why when 2 or more credits are established that the wiper arm on the selection plate cycles without any selection being made.

If your wallbox is set up same as  mine each selection that is made uses 2 credits, a quarter should register 6 credits Ie 3 selections, a dime would give 2 credits so one selection, a nickel only one credit so no selection should be possible until another nickel is deposited giving another credit so a total of 2 credits  & 1 selection possible.

When 2 or more credits are established the wiper arm should only move from the stand by position to the credit position and then stop until both a number and a letter have been selected. If no more credits are established at the end of the cycle the wiper arm should return and stop at the standby position,  if 2 or more credits remain after a selection cycle the wiper arm should stop in the credit position.

Page 9 of the manual details how to check and adjust as  nesseccary several multi blade switches that are either opened by the action of the motor driven cam or by the pressing of the selection switches.

This would be where I would start by checking each of these switches as per the instructions on page 9.

Cheers Scudie

[bobwiley]

Thanks Scudie. I was actually trying to avoid dealing with the credit issue because I’m just having a heck of a time getting good access to those credit leaf switches. I’m just not a delicate person, last time I dissambled stuff to get to those switches it seemed like I still coul6get a good angle to measure gaps, and my adjustings to the leafs were ineffective and sloppy at best! =/ i’ll hopefully get some time alone to work on it soon.

In the meantime I counted the RPM of the wiper arm and I’m just shy of the minimum at 16 rpm. What are you guys using for lubricant and where do I add the drops?

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

I use 3 in one oil, to lube anything that moves, the motor on one of my Seeburgs was really  gummed up not sure if it was a 3w1 or a 3wa  I remember removing the motor completely disassembling it as much as I could used plenty of WD 40 on it to initially get things moving and soften the solidified oil / grease. Reassembled it using the 3in 1 oil.

Apparantly they make a 3in 1 that is specifically for motors, I think it has a blue and white tin rather than the multi purpose oil which is in a red & white tin, have only seen the motor oil for sale in the States.

Where in the world are you?

I found a small dentist type mirror aproximately 20mm in diameter very useful for inspecting the gaps on the Carry over & the Credit cancel switch’s

Cheers Scudie

Cheers Scudie

[bobwiley]

Thanks for the info Scudie! I’m in the US. I have 3 in 1 oil, so I’ll give that a go.

 

Here’s what i have going so far today.

In the Credit Position, I have moved the DPU-10 to register enough credits for a selection. (The coin switches advance it properly.) I make my selection “E” “5”. E and 5 respectively close their motor starting switches (R & P) and remain closed. When depressing E and 5 they each momentarily close the Y Signal Shorting Switch, otherwise the Y Signal Switch is open if there are no selections or if the selections are locked down. (I have a D-3WA with a serial #64219. I don’t think I have a YY Signal Switch, as I don’t have that bank of switches).

The Carryover Switch UVW are all open and exceed the minimum gap.

 

So here’s what I don’t get in the flow chart, if  I select E 5, nothing happens. If I then manually close V on the Carryover Switch, the motor starts and properly plays my selection and stops just like its supposed to. It obviously doesn’t subtract a credit (because I haven’t tackled that yet), but everything seems to work like it should. It’s sending songs to the wallbox2mp3, and I can make multiple selections and its sending a signal, so I can have a cue of songs… The hiccup is if I close switch V on the Carryover Switch without making a selection the motor will cycle through and it will send a song (always the same song) to the Wallbox2mp3. So I need to get the list of songs I have on the SD card and see what signal it is sending. One would think If no selection is made it wouldn’t send any pulses… in anycase, my head scratcher is, other than me needing to putz with the credit cancel switch, should this be working? Like, basically I have this on free play, so the motor should start irregardless?

 

I know, i know, tackle the Credit Cancel Switch bank… =p

I’ll keep ya’ll posted on progress. I feel like I’m so close and its gonna be something obvious that I’m missing in all of this! Have a geeat day!

 

 

 

[bobwiley]

Okie dokie, so something isn’t right when I make my selections. A – V each have a song they send to the wallbox2mp3. If I press “A” and then a number, it will always play Twinkle Little Star. Even if I don’t press a number and select A and manually cycle the wiper arm, it will play Twinkle Little Star. So I think my number bank isnt right, because it appears I have 20 individual songs, each associated to a specific letter that will play everytime that letter is selected, no matter what number I press. The song associated with V is the one that will play if I cycle the motor with no selection being made… I’ll have to find out what songs on the SD card are assigned to which buttons when I can get back in front of a computer and figure out the commonality between them all.

 

The plot thickens! =p

[Scudie]

I had a similar issue with an SC1 which had no credit unit when I got it.

After studying the the diagram in the manual I figured that the number signal circuit went through the credit unit ( but not letters ) not sure if this applies  to a 3wa .

I will have study the manual & connect my 3wa up to a power supply, will try to do it later.

Cheers Scudie

[bobwiley]

Thanks Scudie, you’re probably right, it boils down to me spending some quality time trying to peer at that credit switch bank of leafs. Just hope I’m not supposed to have that YY signal switch, but it doesn’t look like I would even have the mounting holes for that on my wallbox, otherwise the box looks complete. Gotta be the credit switches!

 

Hopefully tomorrow I can tackle it. Ill keep ya’ posted!

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

I built my self a basic test rig, it’s just a transformer an inline fuse a switch and a couple of 24v lamps. Drawn a diagram of it, have found it useful when trying to find faults. If connected as in the diagram the signal lamp flashes as the wiper sweeps the selector plate. If you have an I phone apparently you can video in slow motion so can count the flashes. If not  you can tell the difference between 1 flash and ten.

I am not 100% sure about this but think that the switch you refer to was only on Half Dollar models.

Hope this makes sense.

Cheers Scudie

 

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

Had a thought earlier if you wanted to rule out the credit unit you could disconnect the plug from the socket and put a jumper wire from the ground connection to the fourth hole on the lower row.

The ground terminal is bigger than the others.

Cheers Scudie

[bobwiley]

Oh, that is great! What a fantastic idea! That’ll be awhile before I can wire one up, but its officially on the to do list! Hoping this weekend I can tackle it uninterrupted.

[Scudie]

Good Morning Bob

It occurred to me yesterday that if you are having difficulties with access to the credit cancel and carryover switches, if you can determine the colour of each wire that connects to  u, v, & w contacts of a switch, the wire connections being easier to gain access to, using your meter in continuity mode (audible signal) you should be able to determine whether a pair of contacts are open or closed.

Obviosly you can’t measure gaps this way,  but with the power off,  if you follow the checks in the manual, test to see if you have continuity ( or not ) through any pair of contacts in standby , credit , and cycle modes by manually advancing the mechanism.

 

Cheers Scudie

[bobwiley]

Thanks, I’ll give that a go before i botch everything up by dissambling it!

[bobwiley]

Okay, finally got some time to work on it again.

The credit unit jumper works, it works just like when I have the credit unit attached.

I’m overlooking something. I’m pretty darn sure I have the contacts cleaned on the credit cancel switch and they are in the correct when in the credit position.

 

This is the only thing I can think of. Can the back of the leaf “backers” touch another leaf? Because 2 of them are.

I’ll make a video to show what I have going on in a bit.

[bobwiley]

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

Well I guess it proves that if  the 3wa behaves the same way with the credit unit detached and the jumper wire in place,  then it can’t be any thing on the credit unit that is causing the problem.

You say you are sure that the credit cancel switch contacts are clean and have the correct settings when in the credit position, have you checked them while in the run position or standby positions?

Cheers Scudie

 

[bobwiley]

https://youtu.be/juoIzKKrkvY

 

Here’s a link to the video if it helps. I’m going to be ordering one of those dentists mirrors to check it while cycling.

I must be missing something dumb and obvious. It just seems like it if the credit cancel switches are in the same position, minus different gap  distances, when in stand by vs. Credit positions and the carryover swithes are apen in the credit position, but if if i manually put the carryover switches in the standby position (with V being closed) it will work. Shouldn’t the wallbox cycle in the credit position once both the motor starting switches are closed, not if V is closed?

 

[Scudie]

Hello Bobwiley

Have you checked to ensure that your wiper arm is set in the correct position when the 3wa is in the credit position? The procedure for this is explained in the manual.

With the power off  you  should be able to advance the the mechanism through a complete revolution by manually turning one of the gearbox gears.

Then at the appropriate positions check the status of both the carryover and the credit cancel switch’s

I will get my 3wa out later and see if I can answer your last question.

Cheers Scudie

 

[bobwiley]

Yeah, i have the wiper arm in the correct position. I used a voltmeter at the motor starting switches itself to make sure they are closed, so next I’ll be tracing the wires and checking further down the line. This just seems odd, because i dont think the credit cancel switch bank is wrong.

[bobwiley]

Okay, I think its something with the credit cancel switch bank i think. I was jumping leafs and got it to trigger like its supposed to, but I blew the fuse by accident before I could narrow down the issue. The 3 amp mini screw in fuse in not available anywhere locally, so I just rigged up my own temporary fuse. Fingers crossed I can get this figured out tonight.

[bobwiley]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Okay, update time! I sent my wallbox to Doug at Jukebox Heaven Antiques and he solved problems #1 and #3. It was a loose wire and intermittent connection causing my problem. Now all that’s left for me to get resolved is getting the right selection to play. So what’s happening is pressing A1, A2, A3, etc plays A10 every time. Selecting B1, B2, B3, etc plays B10 everytime. Does this pattern for all the letters so its like I only have 20 songs. The letters and numbers seem to latch and release just like the manual states. Selector plate contacts look clean. I’m guessing the issue lies somewhere in the number latchbar mechanism. Any tips or tricks on what to look at or clean? I’m optimistically figuring it’s just one short to fix since it’s the same is due across all the letters.</p>

[bobwiley]

Also, I plan on still making the light series to check the pulses, just thought it’s interesting the consistency of the selection error I’m getting.

[bobwiley]

Also, can’t believe it’s been a year and a half since I started this! 😜

[Scudie]

Wow Bobwiley

It’s certainly been a while, I have just had to sit and read the thread as I could not remember exactly what your problems were !

l guess I had assumed that you had got it all sorted by now, will try to help if I can.

As I said in one of the earlier posts I had a very similar problem with a SC1 that was missing it’s APU 10 -56 credit unit. I found that part of the  the number selection circuit was on the credit unit, so I only had 20 selections instead of the 160.

If you haven’t built a test rig, you could check the pulse being sent for the selections with a multi meter if it has a ohms function, if it has a continuity function with an audible warning even better!

Connect one lead to the chassis and the other to the signal terminal then select say A 5 then advance the wiper arm manually around the contact disc you should get a beep as the wiper touches some of the number contacts on the SC  that I have on the desk there is no beep for the first four but there is a beep on all the others.

Cheers Scudie

 

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

If you do the beep test as described in the above post make sure there is no power to your wallbox.

Cheers Scudie

[bobwiley]

Thanks for the reply Scudie, I’ll give it a look this weekend. I know, its been awhile. Trust me though, when it’s done I’ll post. I hate threads where someone has a problem and they don’t post the solution/resolution!

 

I’ll need to learn to read schematics properly and thoroughly at some point in my life. Maybe then the logic of it all would make sense. I sort of assumed the credit unit handles credits, the buttons handle the selections and the selector plate handles the signal.

 

I’ll keep ya posted!

[Scudie]

Okedokey Bobwiley

It will be interesting to see if your 3wa is creating the correct signal for each selection.

You are correct about the three components that you mentioned but they can on certain models of wallbox have an effect on each other’s operation.

Cheers Scudie

[Scudie]

Ok so my curiosity got the better of me, so I took the cover off of my V-3WA-D & did a few tests on it using the audible continuity function on my test meter.

The selection function including the signal for both numbers and letter selections is not affected by any part of the credit unit. I got the same results with and without the credit unit being plugged into its socket. So we can safely rule out the credit unit being the cause of your problems.

The wiper arm rotates clockwise and starts at the credit position, the contacts on the disc start at V and go through to A  there is then an extra contact ( which I will call ~ ) before a gap then the numbers start at 1 through to ten.

So in you example where  B1 B2 & B3 all result in B10 being played.

I select B1

I get a beep as the wiper arm comes into contact with the last 3 letter contacts ie B, A & the ~  contact,  I then get a beep as the wiper touches the first number contact which is 1.

If  I select B2 I get the same beeps for the letter B, A, ~  then beeps for 1, 2

If I select B3 I get the same beeps for the letter B, A, ~ then beeps for 1, 2 & 3

If I select B10 I get the same beeps for the letter B, A, ~ then beeps for all number contacts 1, 2,3, through the to and including 10.

Hope this helps and gives you something to compare your results to.

Cheers Scudie

 

 

[bobwiley]

Thank you! That’s perfect!

[bobwiley]

Okay, two steps forward, one step back! It looks like the #10 contact is sending a signal. If I press b1, I get the 3 pulses, then the first number contact sends a pulse, then nothing for contacts 2-9, then on contact 10 it sends a signal. So b2, I get the 3 pulses for the letters (like studies post B,A,~), the first two contacts for numbers and then a pulse for contact #10. Here are the videos for b1 and b10 in slo-mo. The video for b1 shows the light for #10, it’s dim, but there.

B10

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GAew5tTyOg6ttcAtI-dYLNp4gVxoTFyD/view?usp=drivesdk

 

B1

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GAew5tTyOg6ttcAtI-dYLNp4gVxoTFyD/view?usp=drivesdk

 

I pulled off the selector plate and tried to trace the wire. Its so hard to see the mechanism for the “0” push button. I haven’t found any frays in the wire causing it, so it’s gotta be somewhere in that sliding mechanism. When I pulled off the selector plate I must’ve pulled a wire off the selector plate, it’s got a black wrap around it, looks like it shares a solder point with a brown wire, so I have to double check that’s where it goes.

<b>If </b>I’m understanding it right, the wallbox2mp3 software must time gaps between signals, so after the first pulse it assumes nothing but when the 10th contact sends a signal, it just calculates that should be the 10th selection and it just never got pulses for 2-9. When I find where the wire goes, I might cut the contact for #10 just to test my theory.  🤔

[bobwiley]

[bobwiley]

Okay, I put black electrical tape over the #10 contact, thinking that would at least temporarily resolve my problem, but nope. B1 through B9 is still all the same song…. I guess I don’t understand how the wallbox2mp3 is designed to interpret the signals. I was thinking it was just a dumb pulse it counts, but maybe there’s other variables I’m not considering, despite that the test light seems to be lighting appropriately.

[bobwiley]

Also, that wire does go there. It’s so hard to solder with little kids, I don’t recommend it! 😜

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

If you are getting the same song for all of your B selections  1 through to 9  & you have proved that the signal changes as it should, then I would think that if your test light is lighting appropriately then the fault may be with your wb2mp3 unit.

I find it easier to use a soldering iron for soldering 😜

Cheer Scudie

[bobwiley]

Good news with a head scratcher! If I build a playlist as a 3w160 (s02), it works perfectly for the 160 selections. If I build it as the 3wa (s03) I get the problem of the 10th selection being played for every letter (even with the 10th contact being covered with electrical tape so it cannot send a pulse). Is there a component in the wallbox that could have been switched out converting it to a sw160? I have all the pricing pegs set to singles, the selector plate looks correct (10 total contacts for the number portion and the correct number of contacts for the letters). SD card formats fine and in the root directory (no other files present other the current build .configuration file and songs…

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

That is very strange, as far as I know there would be nothing to change in the wall box to convert it to 160 plays, the 3wa that I have had the last two pages bolted to the page unit backing,  apparently it was a common modification called a tie back, I assumed because it had been used in conjunction with a 160 selection jukebox, I guess that they worked on the theory that a customer would not select a letter and number combination that was not accessible/ visible on the pages.

Cheers Scudie

[bobwiley]

Thanks Scudie! It at least feels good I can use 80% of the selections. Hoping maybe there’s a firmware update I can do with the wallbox2mp3 to maybe resolve the two/three issues (one is songs randomly judder/studder, the second is I hear a short burst of a song [<2 seconds long] and then the selection starts, and lastly the 3wa configuration file doesn’t seem to work). Wish I had a control to compare against. Your help, feedback and replies have been the highlight to this project Scudie. Thank you!

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

I don’t think there has ever been any firm ware updates for the wb2mp3, which version do you have? Last year after the V1.5 was released they did offer deal where they would do an exchange can’t remember the details.

Only time I have had stuttering was a faulty Sd card.

You could try configuring an sd for different make and model 200 select wall box’s and give them a try.

I never use the random play config as it appears to make the wb2mp3 unreliable.

Cheers Scudie

 

 

 

[bobwiley]

Yeah, I tried swapping SD card manufacturers and there’s no change on the stutters.  Last night I actually tried the three wurlizter 200 selection models for the conf. file. It worked, but I think the pulse pattern is different, as by the time I got to like V no songs played. So I’m going to try taping off that first contact by the letters and see if that works. I’m glad at least the 3w160 works, but still bummed. I signed up for the v 2.0 swap, so hopefully that’s on the horizon soon. I sent an email to Gaelle and Fabien, so waiting to hear back if they have a solution or idea.

 

I haven’t had any issues with shuffle (other than stuttering which happens to shuffled or selected songs). Honestly I use the wallbox2mp3 mostly for the shuffle feature. I turn on a switch and just let the music play. I might try having multiple same name files and see if it randomly selects various ones when it’s just randomly playing. I’ll keep you posted with any updates!

[bobwiley]

Got an update! I selected an AMI 200 selection wallbox on wallbox2mp3 and it looks like we’re good to go! Still working on contact #10 sending a pulse, so I’m still trying to clean and find a way to see in there 😀. Otherwise I’ll tape over that contact and only put one hit wonders on A9-V9 until I get it sorted out!

[Scudie]

Its good  to hear that there appears to be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Ironically when I did a Wurlitzer 5250 & configured the Sd to match the wallbox, there was no songs played for any of the T U or V selections, I figured that the wb2mp3 unit was actually starting at D1 when A1 had been selected so in reality it played V1 when S1 was selected. After a lot of wasted time stripping and cleaning the contacts of the 5250 I configured an SD for a 200 select Rockola which sorted the problem in a fashion.

Cheers Scudie

 

[Scudie]

This has got me thinking that I really should do something with my V3WA-D.            So have dragged it out going to give the selection contacts & switches a thorough cleaning before I decide what to do with it.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Scudie.

[Scudie]

Hi All

Had a few hours over the last two days to have a look at my 3WA, have given it a thorough clean and lube, just configured an sd card with 200 selections on it appears to be playing all selections as it should. All the coin gear is still inside and its currently  set up to take nickels dimes and quarters.

Cheers Scudie

[gaelle]

hello bobwiley and Scudie,

I’ve answered to you by email few days ago but I post here too. We had an other customer who had the same trouble, he just renames the file .sel in “P00.sel” ( double zero) on the SD card and told us that now all is ok.

Could you please try ?

[Scudie]

Hi Gaélle

My V3wa seems to be working fine as far as I can tell, I have had the 3 WA on for at least a couple of hours most evenings this week. I certainly have all 200 selections that I should.

I configured the SD card for  Seeburg V3WA using the software and Chose Seeburg 3WA 200 select from the list, with no random music, no problems with it playing the wrong songs.

[gaelle]

Hi Scudie,

thank you for your reply.

It seems to have a different behavior depending to your country with the 3WA. It’s managed by the .sel files in particular.

We are awaiting the arrival of a 3wa in the coming days.

We are also looking for a johnny rocket 3w1 in europe if anyone has one for sale or has one to lend us!

[Scudie]

Hi Gaelle

It seems very strange that the 3wa varies its behaviour in different countries,  it  will be interesting to see how your 3WA behaves when you get it in France.

Sorry Cant help you with the Johnny Rocket 3W1 if i had one you would have been welcome to have borrowed  it,  are the Johnny Rockets replica 3w1’s the same as the Ed’s Easy diners ones that were made by Sound and Leisure ?

Cheers Scudie

[bobwiley]

Hi gaelle! (And scudie!)

I just got a day off of work today, so you’ll get an email tomorrow on how it’s all working. I’m in the process of mounting it to the wall right now and then I’ll give the sel files a go! Thanks gang!

[bobwiley]

Was super excited, set the wallbox2mp3 to read the 3wa as a Rock-ola 1555. All 200 selections worked, so I printed strips and put them in and mounted it to the wall. Of course I didn’t quite test it as thoroughly as I should have. If I put it on shuffle, a random songs will play just like it should, but none of my selections will play. If I take it off of shuffle, it plays my selection, but I don’t think it stacks my selections. If I wait for the current selection to finish and then make my next selection it will work. So I’ll need to keep trying other models on the wallbox2mp3. I’m also going to check that a rogue pulse isn’t being sent when I put a credit or something. I don’t know how long the wallbox2mp3 blocks out or cancels it’s recording of a pulse. One would think if it doesn’t receive 3 or more pulses within something like 2 seconds it would disregard the signal.

 

I took my wallbox to a jukebox repair shop, and they said it appears it’s working like it should, so thinking the problem is me or somewhere in between. I’ll keep ya’ll posted!

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

Have just read your recent post regarding your 3wa, I can’t think what is causing your problem, what is mystifying is that my 3wa works fine using the 3wa selection on the software.

Also I have just viewed your two videos that you posted on March 29th one is shown as B1 and the other As B10 but when viewed the lamp appears to flash the same on  both videos  ?

Cheers Scudie

[Scudie]

Ok so I have an update on the performance of my 3wa, as I said in one of the previous posts that all appeared to be working fine, well yesterday evening I became aware that all is not quite right.

All selections from A1 to & including V4 ( the first 80 tracks) play correctly.

Any selections from A5 to V5 are wrong, What I actually get if A5 is selected is A6.

Its the same for any of the letter & 5 selections, B5 plays B6,  C5 plays C6, D5 plays D6 and so on.

Once I move on from the number 5 selections the tracks are played as they should be, so A6 plays A6, B6 plays B6, C6 plays C6 & everything from there on appears to be correct. So it’s just the twenty number 5 selections that are the problem!

I have allready checked the pulse from the the 3wa & all appears to be correct with the signal pulse, when 5 is pressed I get 5 number pulses.

So if anyone has any ideas or suggestions?

Cheers Scudie

 

[Scudie]

Hi All

Ok so I been trying to solve the problem of none of the number 5 tracks being played, as previously mentioned any letter and 5 selections result in the corresponding letter and 6 track being played.

So far I have not been able to rectify this fault but have found a strange problem.

As I had checked that the 3wa was sending the correct signal for the five selections, I turned to the sd card to make sure that I hadn’t got a duplicate of MP3 files for the 5 & 6 selections, all was OK in this department, also checked the files on the sd so they match the selection list that I had printed out.

What I did notice though was that the cnf file  code for random music / wallbox make & model was not a Seeburg code, on checking the list of cnf codes I realised that the Sd had been configured for a  Rockola 1555, I immediately thought that I had made a mistake when I chosen the wallbox type from the list, so formatted the sd and started again.

After going through the process of configuring the SD card again (paying particular attention to the make and model!)

Checked again the cnf file code & instead of reading c0s02.cnf for the 3wa it read coo04.cnf for the Rockola 1555, very strange.

Cheers Scudie

[Scudie]

Here’s a bit of an update on the progress of the 3WA.

I configured several Sd cards using both the latest software that’s currently available and an old version that I have had for at least 3 years, none of these had the desired affect, ie #6 was still played when #5 selections were chosen.

I tried multiple configurations of different manufacturers and models,  none of which improved things, so I reverted back to the initial SD that was configured with the latest software & used the Seeburg 3WA option.

I then took another look at the signal pulse from the 3wa I noticed that when # 5 selections were made I was getting the correct 5 pulses & also  a faint pulse just before the wiper arm came to rest it didn’t appear to do it on #4 or #6 selections.

Cleaning the contact disc and wiper made no difference neither did checking and adjustment of the wiper, the next adjustment on page 6 of the manual covers latch bar adjustment after going through this process hey presto the # 5 selections played as they should, that is untill L or any subsequent letter was chosen when it would repeat the K selection.

I initially thought this was down to the adjustment of the three latch bar screws, further investigation found that infact a wire had broken off the right hand end of the top row of switches and once this was re connected the L -V selections were reinstated.

I am currently working my way through the 200 selections and so far so good👍

Cheers Scudie

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Scudie.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Scudie.

[bobwiley]

Hey Scudie,

Glad to hear you’re making progress! I haven’t had much time to putz with mine. One of these days I’ll have a night free and give ya’ll an update. Good luck!

[Scudie]

Hi Bobwiley

As far as I can remember the 3wa seemed to play the desired songs 99% of the time very occasionally it would play either the track immediately prior or the track that followed the one that had been selected, cancelling the track and re selecting seemed to play the correct track.

Not touched it for weeks now, jobs to do outside. 👍

[Author]

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